onsdag 26. september 2012

Nr. 380: Remarriage, any problem? No, it is sin and adultery teach God's word! Now also former Bishop Odd Bondevik married a divorcee in his old age according Gjendem, when he turns himself into the ranks of so many others! Part 5

Nr. 380:

Remarriage, any problem? No, it is sin and adultery teach God's word! Now also former Bishop Odd Bondevik married a divorcee in his old age according Gjendem, when he turns himself into the ranks of so many others! Part 5

Remarriage is and will remain open up to dark and demonic spiritual powers in the church. Having collected a closing article of debate about this on the net in the day \ magazine and Value debate. Much wisdom and the word of God from some, read and study. Photo of Ludvik Karlsen which unfortunately is a man who has done a lot damage here in Christian Norway with a terrible and totally unbiblical views on divorce and remarriage where everything is permitted only it can "help" than to live as a Christian.

Øyvind Kleiveland: When I read the post editor in chief Simonnes, I do me some thoughts. He mentions that the church adds to strong ties of human life, something I can agree in. At least in earlier times. My thoughts on that is that today can not be said enough to hold water. I think the number of churches and religious communities that talk about the bible says is the case with two people who marry again, is probably very few. It is rather like the churches in Norway today are not talking about, nor have an opinion on what happens between two people. Should it be like that? The Bible speaks of carnal works and fruit of the Spirit in Galatians chapter five. The first four acts involving sexual drives that do not have God's blessing. And as the antithesis, the Bible lists the fruit of the Spirit, including sexual purity, described as abstinence or self-control. It is also explained in the Bible that if a person marries another person while the first is alive, he shall be called a fornicator / adulteress. This is not a church that has taken up, it is the Holy God has written in His Word. It's too easy to give the blame for moral attitudes to the "orthodox" churches, when the word of God supports this beyond a shadow of a doubt, Mr. Simonnes. The Bible speaks straight forward on this issue, and we must not use other words, God's words makes the matter. God calls it lust, not love. Hollywood calls it "true" love. See and Hear the call to "find love" either for the first or umpteenth time someone gets a new woman or man. Yet the Bible calls the flesh. Simonnes use the statement "some Christian communities is critical to re-marry." I wonder what it's environments. Thinking he only Norway, as the little mole we are on earth, or thinking globally?

Arnhild Gjendem: "This divorce has always stood in the way of Wenche and Odd could marry - because some Christian communities is critical to re-marry." Citation Simone Some Christian communities? It is Jesus himself have to take the debate with Helge Simones: Jesus: "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another driver hair. And whoever marries a woman divorced from her husband, driver, hair." Luke 16.18.

Thinking: We should be able to discuss from the Bible without having to characterize each other (s interpretation). Here (previous post), I took not for me bible quotes, but: what are the consequences humanly speaking about the Bible had said that the innocent party may marry again, but not the other. What sin have the others in that case made, which means that it can not get married again? If one believes that divorce and remarriage is not sin, then one can only marry many times. But most realize, that when one has promised to love and honor the life out ... . If one believes that divorce is a sin, one could say that God forgives sin. But when it says clearly that remarriage is not allowed, then one can not commit sin grace. Being married is the signing of a covenant and a promise. It can not be forgiven - it's PITY God forgives. If someone does not understand the difference here, but believe that both divorce and remarriage is a sin, they believe, then, that it is a sin that God will forgive 70 x 7 times?? The Pharisees did the counsel of God for themselves (Luke 7, 30), they put God's commandment to keep its own regulations (Mark 7:9). There are unfortunately many do today, too, not least when it comes to these issues. Therefore, loving guidance from God's Word is important (vital for eternal life) and correct, and is not to be confused with acid criticism. When Pilate would make people's liking, he Barabbas, but Jesus let scourge. It seems that many managers will make people pleased today too, but those are not ashamed of Jesus and what He said, they are more or less "rods". John the Baptist way, sacrificed his life to tell him that it was not lawful for him to have the new wife (his brother's wife) whom he had married. The Lord Himself strong support it is completely with him in his heart (2CH. 16:9). Those who want to live alone after a divorce because they want to follow the Lord's Word, you can count on the support! Yes, God will turn all the evil they have experienced for good to them! What a great God we have!

Øyvind Kleiveland: Agree, Think! One thought on: if the Bible had opened for remarriage, how many had been "too many"? 5? 15? When I ask people who are married again, think always that there are "too many" marriage if someone is married more times than themselves. Is not that typical? God level, EN, human level is always ONE MORE THAN ME ....

wasco55 All of these problems have arisen because our Norwegian Bible is translated to concur with what has been the church's "teachings" in the last few hundred years. Jesus never talked about divorce but about "sending away" The Greek word used whenever Jesus talks about divorce is apoluo. The Greek word for divorce is apostasion. Apoluo is used many times in the NT, and is then overrsatt with, to send away. But the strange thing is that every time Jesus speaks of marriage is the same word translated in divorce in the Norwegian Bible. That Jesus took hold of, was the fact that the Jews of Jesus' time had taken by the customs that were common in other pagan cultures. There, it was common for a man to send away his wife, without taking responsibility for her future. God had given directives on how a divorce would take place. The man who would stand, would give his wife a certificate of divorce. This also meant that he would pay back the dowry his wife had brought into the marriage, and in some cases also parts of common acquired property or other assets. With a divorce, the wife could also remarry. But it was tempting to just overpower send away his wife, without all the formalities. Then he spared himself both money and worries. But the woman was then left without financial resources, and she could not remarry. This practice gave the Pharisees his tacit consent, and this was what Jesus reacted. Divorce and remarriage was not a problem in Jesus time. It first became an issue after the Catholic Church made marriage a sacrament. But this did not happen until the 12 century. Church Orthodox view on this topic is a legacy of the Catholic Church, and has no basis in Scripture.

norskiUtlandet: Hello, Wasco! Stakeholder posts and you're probably right in the wording of the translation. However, a translation must not only render word for word, but the text's meaning. If you read this in context, you will see that Jesus wanted to get away from the practice of divorce and divorce. He did not want that to happen at all! Although you probably have a point, so the question is not so simple. Some Pharisees came to test him, they asked: "Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife by any reason? " 4 He answered, "Have you not read that the Creator from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave father and mother and hold fast to his woman, and the two will become one body.' 6 So they are no longer two, they are one body. And what God has joined together, let man not separate. " 7 And they asked him, "Why then did Moses command that a man give the woman a bill of divorce before he can send her away?" 8 He replied: "Because of your hardness of heart, Moses permitted you to separated from their wives. But from the beginning it was not so. 9 I say to you, whoever divorces his wife for any other reason than fornication, and marries another woman commits adultery. "Matt. 19.3 to 9. The text also suggests that radical in what Jesus says at the disciples' reaction. It's clear that they think this was strictly.

Thanks for this. The Bible clearly states, both here and several other places that divorce (away sending spouses) is not God's will, and that one who is divorced can not remarry while the first spouse is still living. But there is also a "mistake" to the Norwegian translation. Both Greek and Hebrew has two different words for "adultery". Jesus says here in Matt.19: "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife for no other reason than fornication (porneia, fornication) and marries another, commits adultery (moikjatai, driver adultery). And whoever marries a divorced woman adulteress (moikjatai). The disciples said to Him: Is the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry! " Bible's original text uses two different words in this verse are both translated into the same Norwegian word adultery. The Greek the word "porn" prostitute comes from another Greek word, pernemi, which means sell. It was spent on prostitutes who committed indecent acts against payment, thereby sold the bodies of those who wanted to. "Porneia" was the usual word for fornication and correspond with the Hebrew "tsenut". More dictionaries translates this word with prostitution. The other Greek word is "moicheia", which corresponds to the Hebrew "na'af" and expresses action in relation to marriage and translated usually with adultery. That is just "porneia" which provides the basis for divorce according to Jesus. The word should be translated with fornication here as elsewhere, as some translations do as well. What is so divorce because of "porneia"? When Jesus comes with this statement, he is in discussion with the Pharisees who debated the topic from the Law of Moses. Divorce because of "porneia" is featured in 5.Mos 22.13 to 21. Here it is the Hebrew "tsenut" used, but this precisely match the Greek "porneia". We see here that the divorce because of "tsenut" (fornication) is relevant when a woman has given himself out to be a virgin, but as it turns that she was not there yet, but had driven "tsenut" in his father's house. "Tsenut / porneia" Nothing stands for fornication committed before marriage. Then the marriage contract built a deception from the woman's side and was therefore not final and could canceled. If the man would demand a divorce on the grounds of "tsenut" so he had to provide proof of the elders who was to decide the case. Won man is not forward with his claim he had to take her in marriage and not divorce from her as long as he lived (verse 19). Therefore Ceremony in Israel usually held the day before the elders had their weekly council meeting so that any issues be processed promptly. In this light, it therefore difficult to interpret Jesus' statement that when a marriage is in solution because one party is cheating as it provides a basis for divorce and remarriage. Had Jesus meant what He would have used the word for adultery ("Moicheia"). Alternatively, he could use both "porneia" and "Moicheia" as he does in Matt.15, 19 But when he does not, we must be careful not to add anything to what Jesus said. The last sentence is then also difficult to misunderstand. Here Jesus says plainly, "He who marries a divorced woman driver adultery. " Such an understanding of what Jesus said to us seem very strict, and it is difficult to get it to fit with Jesus' great charity. But we must not change the biblical words to get it to fit in our environment, even if It could be tempting. Among the Pharisees had a party a very liberal views on divorce / remarriage while the other party believed that only fornication / adultery was good enough reason. Then when Jesus took a stance that was more stringent than the highest among the Pharisees were also disciples of Jesus marveled. We are also allowed to wonder about it, but we would do well to take Jesus' words seriously and not try to explain it away.

Øyvind Kleiveland: Good point, nail. If Christians had lived out the Bible talks about, as the number had fallen dramatically divorce. If you know that the Bible says that you are bound to their first spouse as long as both are alive, then you had thought about it several times before it just "went". If the choice is to live the rest of your life in "one room and kitchen" or to keep out further, I think many had chosen something else.

Final Comment: To the older I get I see it as impossible that a believer may remarry if both were believers when they entered into the marriage, who should be able to judge as to who may be the guilty and the innocent party as it's called? No! Remarriage is adultery if there is a physical death. And should one get married again, so is than an adulterer or adulteress!

Related links: http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2012/09/nr-379-remarriage-any-problem-no-it-is.hhttp://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2012/09/nr-377-remarriage-any-problem-no-it-is.html http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2012/09/nr-376-remarriage-any-problem-no-it-is.html http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2012/09/nr-378-remarriage-any-problem-no-it-is.htmltml

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