Sjur Jansen who runs a house fellowships think I am a Christian then I do not think that the only true God died on the cross, but the man Jesus Christ!
Sjur Jansen and other Trinitarian doctrine sets without passing salvation ultimately by believing that it was God who died on the cross and not man Jesus Christ who died for our sins! It is also especially bad if one condemns others who are on the right path. To be labeled so that trinity teachers such as Sjur Jansen does not make me anything, but he and like-minded people to be held accountable for this. That I believe is "bad for business!".
This type Shur Jansen about me including on their own blog about me when I tried to discuss with him about the Trinity: "Are you against Trinity with your arguments, you must also be against Toene. Put another way, then you must believe that it was God who sacrificed himself for our sake on the cross. "
What I wrote: God sacrificed himself so deep he could through the Son. It is love that! He gave him up for us all! 1 Jn. b 4 9 In this was manifested the love toward us, because that God sent his only Son into the world that we might live through him. Joh. e 3 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life; Or was your response haughty and not what I asked! Sjur you waive my salvation when I do not believe that Jesus is the only true God. Jesus is God, but not the one true God. But it is anything that describes who he is, telling and explaining all aspects and around him. He will one day rule the earth for 1000 years, then he will give everything back to the Father, the only true God. Is there something Divine above one if one should eg. reign of God Father's mandate for 1000 years? He zones sin for me on Calvary (even if you exclude me the experience and belief in it). It is very, very many aspects of Jesus here I can pull off.
Jesus has been given all authority by whom? You are allowed to believe what you want, but you do not see that there is an essential difference between God the Father and Jesus? The Bible describes humans as well as God, angels, yes, even more. But you must see what lies behind the words, what it stands alongside etc. You avoids answering again and again to my questions. But you 'require' answer to me all the time, no honest and good way to debate on. Sjur you come with your views, but I think you are mixing God the Father and Jesus. All that Jesus is, p.g.a. His Father. He says, for example. that me All power is given, the Father is greater than me, he does not know when he comes back, it knows only the Father. I do nothing without the Father shows me etc. You still have not answered my question. Among other do not you see that there are essentially differences in God the Father and Jesus?
Imagine that. That my father is my copyright, and I'm a "profit" of him. So it is with God the Father and Jesus. Jesus has a beginning, and his work has an end. Father has no beginning, and His work and kingdom are forever and for always. Can you, for example. explain this passage to me, at least try it. 1 Cor. 15th 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he says that everything is subjected to him, then it is evident that he is excepted who subject him everything; 28 but when everything is subjected to him, then shall the Son himself subdue him him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. The son shall submit to the Father again, why? As he came forth from him and made his will in one and all! Believe only in one God the Father, as the Apostle Paul says, hallelujah!
This was the first Christian creed: it is yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Looking again and again escapes to comment and answer my question, but dispense what you believe in (something I'm unfamiliar with since I have been in PB and welcoming friends for thirty years). I will try one last time, if you can answer. Is there a hierarchy? Where God, the Ancient of Days is at the top. Secondly, the Son, the angels, as people, so animals and plants? If you believe in the word of God teaches, how can you explain this?
1 Cor. 11th 3 But I want you to know that Christ is every man's master, and the husband is the master, and God is his master.
You have not answered even one of my questions in a clarifying manner, but place me without past salvation. Would really what kind of God you have to do, is not God the God of truth and the Spirit is the Spirit of truth? How I experience it and have an answer to everything you have come to, but has "jumped" over something in between otherwise it would have been too patchy and too much at once. You come with a whole serial of outlay as I know, and I can not comment on any claim you get when you do not answer me some of what I've asked you yet? A bit like the answer should have been, but I'm not saved in your eyes even though I believe that Jesus died for my sins and that is through the blood and live a holy and consecrated life you are saved and kept talking about being seduced and spiritually blind! What I've read so far from you, is that you are the same as most "Christian" only to emphasize that the meetings will take place in house meetings, to enjoy, not to study what the scriptures actually say and mean. And I think there is zero error in the word of God as it was given to the saints of old, but through translations etc. then things have not been translated 100% correct and our language has also been negatively affected. Therefore, one can not read the Norwegian translation and necessarily say that this is 100% correct, but now I expect you to answer me for the first time so far in this debate! And is there a hierarchy? Then one must be larger than the other, or so it is not a hierarchy? Don t how those who believe in a God triad of three equal Gods, read and study the Bible, they had been failing the math at least! But one thing most, "audacity and Freida gift", not a lowly Jesus' mind. Strange that this is so if they have "the truth". And you believe in three Gods, he-he, it will not explain, why? (End of quote).
To not bring all things here, we see here that Sjur Jansen drag my salvation in doubt. It is this that is the case main core, I am saved who rejects the Trinity or not?
It was not God who came down and became man, but his son, who came forth from him. Here there is a major difference.
Joh 4:28 p.m. I came forth from the Father and entered the world, I leave the world and go to the Father.
There are many differences in God the Father, and very many similarities. We can over-focus on what I call the divine unit at the expense of the differences between Father and son, between the only true God the Father and Jesus, his own unique and special son who is the only one who is himself equal and has declared he itself.
It says in Isaiah 44 6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.
What it says here in the Hebrew is: besides me there is no God like me. This says God the Father himself. He is the only one who is from everlasting. The only true God. All others after him into the rank and origin.
It is essential to understand that no one can be equated with God the Father fully, therefore it stands in the Hebrew Bible as the original, "besides me there is no God like me."
Then everything else will fall into place, only we understand and acknowledge that God the Father is the only true God, no one else.
Here an article I wrote some years ago: the Word was God or the divine species!
Joh. e 1 In the beginning was the Word. Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jesus has a beginning, it has not the Father.
Psalm 90 Psalm 90 2 Before the mountains were born, before the earth and the world was, even from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
Word 8 is biledelig speak about Jesus just as Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 it is Satan. Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Jesus was the first Father created and that the last he will deliver the kingdom to the Father. Obvious. 1 7 Behold, he cometh in the clouds! Every eye will see Him, even those who pierced him, and all the nations of the earth shall mourn over him. Yea, verily, amen!
8 I am Alpha and Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. This is Jesus. He is the Almighty and the sovereign on Father's behalf. When he has ruled for 1000 years, together with all the saints, he turns the kingdom to the Father again.
Jesus has gradually been filled with the Father if he has never had a negative thought, sinful act or something that has been in open session and to the annoyance of the Father.
Father looks wrong with his holy angels, but never in the Son. Therefore, he is different and perfect as only the Father is. He is God, yet not the Father. This doctrine of the Trinity was totally unknown to the early Christians, they had a monotheistic understanding of God just like the Jews. The heresy of the Trinity came as apostasy was the official church evolved.
Then one had to have learning device, not the unity that Scripture speaks of. Eph. 4 3 careful to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
1 Joh. b 1 That which was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we saw, and our hands touched, if we hold the bid, the word of life. 2 And the life was manifested, we have seen it and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was revealed to us. 3 That which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, that ye should have fellowship with us, we have fellowship with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing this that our joy will be complete.
There are so effortlessly over the apostle's teaching in contrast to the Trinity as one can not understand. But one must believe in blind obedience not to be stamped. How can a purely mathematical getting the three Gods a God? Therefore, using a word deity is a word that a user for all it's worth, the word God is too difficult.
What says the apostle really? That Jesus was with the Father and was manifested as life, light and Son. Let yourself the fool anymore, there is only one God, the Father. And the Son is gone out from him. Joh. AD 17 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
In John 1: 1 is, according to the Norwegian Bible Society translation of 1978/85: "In the beginning was the Word. Word was with God, and the Word was God. "Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly that" the Word "is Jesus. (John 1: 14) However, since the Word is called God, someone who draws the conclusion that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.
We must be aware that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later the Greek text translated into other languages. But a number of Bible translators have translated the last words of John 1: 1 with "the Word was God." Why? Based on their knowledge of biblical Greek, they concluded that these words be translated in a different way. How have they chosen to translate them? Here are some examples: "The Word was of divine species." (The New Testament in the new translation of Sounds Brown, Oslo) "the Word was a god." (The New Testament in an Improved Version, London) "The Word was a divine being. »(La Bible du Centenaire, Paris) According to these translations are not word God selv.1 Instead, the word referred to as" a god ", because of his high position among the Lord God creatures. The word "God" here means "one who is mighty." And it speaks above all about quality word God here. Jesus is the only one that has the same life, light, and features fully with the Father. I have tried to meet surpassed all difficult passages and the sum of God's word is truth. What is the sum of God's word? There are 1000 passages that speak of one God and 3-4 passages that speak of the Trinity.
The choice is yours what and who to follow!
Consider this example: A teacher explains a topic for their students. Afterward, the students disagreed about how to understand the explanation. How can they figure out the issue? They can ask the teacher to get more information. When they get more facts, it is probably easier for them to understand the subject. In a similar way you can understand what it says in John 1: 1, means, go to the Gospel of John to gain more information about Jesus' position. The fact that you get more facts, will make it easier for you to draw the right conclusion.
Think for example of what John writes in chapter 1, verse 18: "No one has ever seen [Almighty] God." But people have seen Jesus, the Son. John says: "The Word [Jesus] became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory." (John 1: 14, NO) How could the Son be part of Almighty God? John says that the Word was "with God". But how can a person be with someone and be that person? And in John 17: 3 Jesus clearly distinguishes between himself and his heavenly Father. He describes his father as "the only true God." At the end of his Gospel, John, also his account of the signs Jesus did, by saying: "These have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God." (John 20: 31) Notice that Jesus referred to as the Son of God, not as God. This additional information that John's Gospel comes to show how John 1: 1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is "a god" in the sense that he has a high position, but he is not the same as the Almighty God.
Consider again the example of the teacher and the students. Imagine that someone is still uncertain after they have listened to the additional explanation the teacher has made. What can they do? They may turn to another teacher for more information on the same topic. If the other teacher explains and confirms the explanation of the first has come with is probably most students no longer perplexed. If you are not sure what the Bible writer John really said about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you can do something similar. You can turn to another Bible writer to get more information. Think for example of what Matthew wrote. He quoted Jesus as saying in connection with the end of the current world order, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matthew 24: 36) How to confirm the words that Jesus is not the Almighty God?
Jesus said that the Father knows more than the Son. But if Jesus were part of Almighty God, he would have known exactly the same as his father. The Son and the Father can thus not be equated. But some may say, "Jesus had two natures. Here he talks in his capacity of man. "But if that were the case, what about the Holy Spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why did not Jesus that it knows what the Father knows?
When one goes into this subject and compare all passages up against each other so get Trinity followers difficulty.
It's really just a scripture that speaks directly about the Trinity and it is not included in the original basic text, it is a later addition. Now the false, unbiblical and demonic trinity stand for vertical or the cat has nine lives? Of course, the word of God and the truth sets free, Jesus.
Joh. e 8 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. " Here is one passage that speaks of the Trinity in plain text:
Theologians have pointed out several places in the NT to support in their view that God is three, three people. Father, Son and Holy Spirit-who are together in a god. This dogma is not particularly emphasized in the Bible except in some later texts other than in the first Epistle of John chapter 5 verses 7-8 Through the Latin Middle Ages believed that the text said: There are three that bear witness in heaven. The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit. Aha here it is, the dogma of the Trinity. But this is found only in the Latin manuscripts. No, not in the Greek manuscripts of the NT.
Since the New Testament of the Greek manuscripts were published in 1516, a scribe named Erasmus did not include these verses to the great hubbub of his theological opponents who maintained that he had a mischievous way removed from Trinity Bible. Erasmus replied that he could not find this part in any of the Greek manuscripts he knew. And here goes the story. He challenged his opponents to produce a Greek manuscript of the Trinity. If they did it, he would include it in the next edition of the NT. In response produced his opponents a manuscript or at least they got a produced. Some copied John's first letter from the Greek and added these verses, and presented them to Erasmus. As the honorable man he was, he included these verses in the next edition. It was this version that became the basis for the King James version, which was important in the historical Bible in English. These verses are still in the King James version but not the newer and more reliable translations.
This is why an older generation of readers of the English Bible was assumed that the Bible taught the dogma of the Trinity, even though this is not found in any Greek manuscripts in more than a thousand years. So what are the most reliable? The Greek manuscripts or the much later Latin?
Let now be abundantly clear, I stick to the original Greek manuscript. Then one must reject the Trinity and Jesus only doctrine and belief in only one God, the Father, and that he only has an only Son, Jesus Christ! (End of quote).
Jesus had to be a human being like us to die for mankind.
1 Tim. 2 5 For there is one God and one mediator rocks of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, a testimony in his time.
From my commentaries Hebrews 2 6 If this is the one who has testified somewhere: What is man that You are mindful of him, the son of man, that You care for him?
It is a paradox that we humans are made lower than the angels but anyway it was a human Son of God was. Should not he rather be an angel and save 1 \ 3 of those who fell and became Satan? No, it's a human being and God takes us down. The angels who fell has no possibility of restoration.
7 A short time you put him lower than the angels. But you have crowned him with glory and honor; Even Jesus by becoming human was lower set lower than the angels. The angels can see out the Father's presence and be in his presence without having to pass away. We humans can not.
8 everything you put under his feet. When it says, "put all things under him," then nothing except, everything should be subject to him. Yet we can not see that everything is put under him. But with Jesus as "opted" God the Father all on him. Should there be salvation, redemption, and we humans could have to do with God. Was all nodes of the test consisted of Jesus and the Father would recognize it!
9 But we see Jesus, who for a short while was made lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death. How was he by the grace of God taste death for everyone. Jesus held out to be human and completed his work. But it was in the most bitter way. He was not spared nothing, even death received him into her embrace. 10 For God is all things reason and origin, would lead many sons to glory. When he had to leave the captain who leads them to salvation, made perfect through sufferings of the Son of God. This is such a great paradox that we must take eternity to help to understand and get to the bottom of this. That God could even allowed and acknowledge that salvation must and should go through the humiliation, suffering and death.
1:14 Since the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself part of the same. How was he by his death destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil, Jesus became a man and not an angel. Without that he had become as one of us as he had not been able to save and redeem us from sin, bondage and death is our last enemy that Jesus also defeated. 1 Cor. 15.54 And when that happens, and this corruptible and mortal shall have put on incorruption and immortality, then fulfilled that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory
15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. All that has gone before both those who lived then and we are living today is salvation included. If we are to see death and not get to experience the rapture, salvation just as great, lovely and safe.
16 It is not angels he takes care of, but he takes care of the seed of Abraham. Here we go again, it's not the angels which are objective but God's people. And the blessing is within the reach only through partaking of the same faith that Abraham had, and then we are also a part of his family. Gal. 3 14 This happened so that the Gentiles through Jesus Christ should partake of the blessing that was promised to Abraham, and that through faith would receive the Spirit as it was promised. 17 Therefore he must in all things be like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God and zone sins of the people. Through Jesus not only remained to be with God and be like Him in His likeness. But the man and knew everything like us. Then scroll he our perfect High Priest.
18 Because he himself suffered and been tempted, he can help those who are tempted. Jesus stood struggle and suffering out and he has full understanding of being human. But he does not stand at a distance and believe we can and will manage the game alone. He will help and come to our aid by his Spirit that will strengthen, guide, comfort and complement us! (End of quote).
Jesus was and was like you and me, so we see again and again that it was not God who died on the cross, but a human being. And there was a man who was raised up, not a God. Therefore it says that it was God the Father mighty power - the Holy Spirit - who raised Jesus from the dead. In this way, God the Father that Jesus' sacrifice was perfect and that he - Jesus Christ - was God's own Son.
Here comes none scriptures that tell us this:
Rooms. 1 4 that according to the spirit of holiness is declared to be the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
Eph. 1 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in heaven.
Jesus was 100% human and 0% the only true God, it is only and alone God the Father is. It was, therefore, that he was human and not God that he could serve the sin that Hebrews 1 16 says: "It is not angels he takes care of, but he takes care of Abraham's seed." Here lies the secret of the whole salvation. If one then believe that Jesus was and became a man, one is not saved by what the Trinity claims. They turn at the head, that it was God and not man who died on the cross. What did Jesus on the cross?
Mark 3:34 p.m. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi! Eloi! lama sabachthani? it is interpreted, My God! My God! why have you forsaken me?
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli! Eli! lama sabachthani? that is, My God! My God! why have you forsaken me?
A God can not leave a god, but a man can be forgiven by God. If we turn this head we lose salvation. In other words, the Trinity puts itself ultimately without passing salvation!
Final comment:
Sjur Jansen and other trinity doctrine is incredibly arrogant when they can draw others' salvation in doubt but they are trying to put itself without passing to believe and teach others that it was God and not man who died on the cross. Scripture clearly says that the Father made a body for him and he had to be our generation - a human - like you and me to die for us as a perfect man. Which is unblemished and perfect sacrifice. This, I think, and I'm sure that's what will keep for my and others' salvation. Not that God is dead, but the man Jesus Christ died. And God showed up and godgjorde this, he raised Jesus from the dead so that he would be for our justification!
Rooms. 4 22 Therefore it was also credited to him as righteousness. 23 And not only for his sake it is written that it was imputed to him, 24 but for our sake, that it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Jesus was raised by God the Father for our justification, as the perfect man he was!
I think that there will be Jesus only people trinity doctrine in heaven. But both spiritual direction is wrong, therefore, study the word of God above all. And read the blogs and our website, recommended!
Related links: http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2013/04/nr-482-evangelist-and-singer-helge-ivar.html http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2012/09/nr-369-leader-of-evangelisenteret-in.html http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2012/02/nr-239-jan-aage-torp-jan-hanvold-harald.html http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2011/12/nr-157-not-everyone-who-says-lord-and.html http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2011/11/nr-130-evangelisenterets-premier-singer.html
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