From Verdidebeatt Anders Helge cleanup
Photo of cleanup from when we were gathered together to emphasize party in Norway in summer
Who is going to live ... for Jesus coming? That question is all of great interest, I should say. To be brief, I mean the set of biblical eyes:
In the Old Testament, until Jacob (Israel) seed comes the really few Patriarch families, such as Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac. Anyone who had the Lord, Yahweh as their God and Lord enters collectively the sons and daughters. They will experience eternal life with God.
The next category is the patriarch Jacob. But also his offspring must be divided into two, namely those who followed God's messengers and leaders, they receive eternal life with Him. and the other, those who chose to go their own ways, they chose idols.
In the New Testament it is easy and straightforward, those who have said yes to Jesus as their Lord and Savior will be with Him for eternal life. All these people, together with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit reign with Him on earth and in heaven for all eternity. All the others, and it is the majority, will be destroyed forever in the fiery lake, together with the devil and his peers.
How many people are living on earth and in heaven, do you think, after Jesus has cleared up here? It is of course impossible to know, but we take a rough estimate, I'll tip one (1) billion saved souls. These people will live in heaven and on earth, and the area of the earth is in the Middle East. The 12 tribes of Israel to dwell on earth, and all others of different ethnic origins to live in heaven. The rest of the earth, approximately 90 percent are without people. But it will certainly stay animals, birds and fish all over the earth. The climate will probably be like in the days of Adam and Eve before the Fall, a rainforest area. There, they cultivate the earth 12 times a year and eat / drink of the tree and fruit so they will live forever.
All the people will get a new glory body, which can move in seconds through space, and gladly put their feet on the moon, mars or Jupiter. The access between the God of heaven and earth will of course remain open and can be accessed in seconds.
Finally, when the time comes this to happen, and when the time comes man to heaven when they die? Yes, in the end times, that when Jesus comes, then all the graves opened ... not before. So sorry all of you who think that their Christian grandmother is in heaven now, no, she should probably wait their turn like everyone else!
Here some comments regarding this topic.
Jan Kåre Christensen:
Do you answer them very well.
Who is in heaven now?
The angels, Jesus and the Father.
Who among the people? It will really sure just be a few?
But besides that Moses could also be there when they met him on the Mount (Matthew. 17).
Rapture of Enoch in the days before the flood (1st Gen. 5:24) and Elijah in the time of King in Israel (2 Kings 2:11) suggests that they are in heaven when we meet Elias again in Matt. 17 on the Mount.
Matt. 17 1 Six days later Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Notice that Moses also was there when he was not buried or dead? But was caught up in a better Canaan land.
When the Salvation Army writes in his obituary promoted to glory so is probably not entirely true. Man must first be brought to judgment and responsibility, then it is either annihilation or eternal glory.
Anders Helge it says very clearly of human sleeping or is in a form of state between sleep and being awake. By that I mean that a safe can record some stuff in the sense if one has requested that their children will be saved, or anything else. So one can get a form of communication? But salvation consists of that we will be resurrected. It will happen to the believers when Jesus comes again. With the others, the judgment before the white throne resurrection. There are several resurrections in the Bible. Today it is only Jesus who has risen from the dead and seated at the right hand of God. Paul, Peter and all the others are in God's memory, but not in heaven.
Paradise that is enough space in space could probably be where the righteous souls awaiting the Resurrection. To draw in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a total failure as this is a parable.
As believers, we need not be afraid of death, but to think that we go straight to heaven after we die is not biblical. It is only when we get the resurrection of the body that we get in there.
There is much we do not know Anders Helge, but have you heard that there are those who claim that Satan's abode is Venus? It says that he reigns in heaven, air, a place he and his demons and fallen angels to keep? Much could we discussed, you take it since!
Regards
Jan K
Anders Helge cleanup:
Gunnar Lund - go to the quoted text.
No, this is completely wrong cleanup.
In fact, both GT, Jesus and Paul was aware that the soul lives on after physical death.
All sleep states will rise out of their graves.
When we die, "we sleep" Jesus wakes us up, some to everlasting life and others to everlasting contempt.
Elias Per Vågnes - go to the quoted text.
reading your post on tomorrow twig, Anders Helge! But I do not think that the Earth host bebueleg. Remember that the Dragon will sweep his tail so that one third of all the stars in Himmelkvelvet will fall down to the earth's surface. How many host it, Anders Helge?
All the stars in Himmelkvelven is basking with its own system of planets. When the first sun this down on the earth's surface host planet swallowed by a eldinferno. Then the rest of the "third part", ie millions if not billions, of universe's stars hit the clearing to reveal that once was our planet. There will be no need to open graves. They are all away like a.
It is very nice to read in the Bible, most are easy to understand. But when it comes biblical fantasies of a man from Sunnmøre, so it all becomes difficult.
Even if you are as old as the Pope and looks a bit like him, then you are not close to the truth, when it comes to Bible understanding your Elias!
Gunnar Lund - go to the quoted text.
Nice if you could write scriptures up, so I can check them as this with the word "dig" and we sleep, sleep, sleep in, etc., is repeated in several places. To this must be seen in context.
is perhaps the most compelling argument, when it comes to my view. But at the end of the book of Daniel is also very clear.
But John 11:
21 Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have been død.22 Nor now it's too late, for I know that God will bring my brother back to life again, if you just want ask him about it. "
23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."
24 "I know that he shall rise at the great resurrection day," nodded Marta.
25 But Jesus continued: "I am the one who raises the dead and gives them life again. Whoever believes in me will live, even though he dies. 26 He has given eternal life because he believed in me, and he shall never pass away. Do you believe this, Martha? "
27 "Yes, Master," she told him, "I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, whom we have waited for so long." End quote.
Here it is in black and white that Jesus agreed with Marta in this, that in the resurrection day shall all stand up from his sleep.
Elias Per Vågnes - go to the quoted text.
Here is also established that the Bible Orda not be interpreted, but understood literally as they are dictated by DHA and therefore is without fault to fault.
Then we can move on to Revelation there are a lot of strange: Here a treat, "3 Also another sign appeared in heaven, a great, fiery red dragon with seven heads and ten horns. On their heads were the seven crowns. 4 tail tore down a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. "
than your Lord's Prayer, Elijah!
Yes, you're absolutely right, because it is as you say. However, this must be understood spiritually, in a way it is a parable, such as Jesus told each other frequently. It is used because it will show something is going to happen, so that "the trees will clap their hands," and "the stones will cry out."
Rune St @ ven - go to the quoted text.
When he turns his eyes says it dødriket then see the kingdom where he is, and he also looks over to the other side of Lazarus. so where's sleep in this case?
Yes, we have been in the parable before, and it is a parable.
How else are we to understand it all, the rich came to the grave, and the poor to Paradise! Then hang our ascension into a thin line, because we live in the richest countries and you and I live enough in abundance!
How are all dead Christians fit into Abraham's bosom?
It is useful to study various topics in the Bible. Here's something about what happens after death:
Death is a return. (Eng .: Death is a return).
The Bible tells us that man at death return to dust, and the spirit returns to God who first gave it. When we bury or cremate our dead, so broken body down and becomes literally to dust and become so one with the earth that it even came from. This is one phase of death, that man's dead body turns to dust and return to what once was its starting point.
Likewise, the breath of life given to Adam (1.Mos.2, 7) and then to us, returns to God who gave it. Here are the breath of life separated from the body, and death occurs.
Consider what happens when a person dies, and you will see that the Bible speaks directly about this. When you practice first aid to an unconscious person, so the first thing you do to clear the airway with him. No matter how weak or strong your heart is - if they can not breath so they die. So, to put it simply: When a door, then turn your body back to the earth, their spirit returns to God, and so ceases (temporarily) the soul to exist. Physically, one is back to where it was before you were.
Remember, the soul is not something we have but something we are after the body has been given the breath of life.
Life and everything in it, ceases suddenly at death:
"For in death there is no remembrance of you. Who prices well up in hell? "Psalm 6, 6.
"..for There is no work or planning or knowledge or wisdom in the grave, whither thou goest." Pred. 9, 10.
"For Sheol you, promise you death. Not those who go down to the pit of your faithfulness. "Jes.38, 18.
For a further study of this aspect, you have also recommended these verses read:
1.Mos.6, 3; Job 7, 21; 10, 9; 17, 16; 20, 11; 21, 25-26; Psalm 7, 5; 30, 9; Pred. 3, 19-21; Isa. 26, 19; Dan. 12, 2.
Gunnar Lund - go to the quoted text.
This among other things that you write about the soul, there is no evangelical denominations agree. Kun Adventists.
You mix together
Lund, and I'm halfway Adventist. So that's probably what makes the difference ...
Gunnar Lund - go to the quoted text.
Well, cleanup and Jensen, have probably disappoint you. The sky is full of people.
Here's something that clearly shows that the soul lives on after physical death:
"Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise." Luk.23: 43
In Greek overs. are not limited at all. The translators have placed the colon / comma discretion and theological vision. For most people, so appears this passage almost like a small island in the biblical landscape, detached from the vast continent - which is the Bible's overall teaching respect life and death. We keep the colon, or comma as stated in the quoted translation "..sannelig I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise ...", so this proves that Jesus could contradict his own teachings! If we move colon, or comma, after "Today," so we get the correct meaning: Jesus indicated to him the day of his death, he SINCE would be with Jesus in Paradise. Remember rob's prayer: Come remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus answered him straightforward and uncomplicated, Verily I say unto thee today, Thou shalt be with me in Paradise, when I come into my kingdom.
I use scripture to support that 1 Jesus is risen from the dead 2 Ergo he could to advance the robber promise that one day he would meet the risen Master in his Kingdom.
IF commas, colons, IF ANY, IS VIRGIN
I said that if the comma possibly colon are left untouched, uncorrected - then we have an odd contradiction in the New Testament, where Jesus "speaks with a forked tongue." It is as follows:
Matt.12, 40: "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
This was clearly fulfilled when he died and was buried in the tomb of Joseph, the kingdom, and he arose on the third day. After the resurrection Jesus forbade Mary to touch him (touch Jesus) "..for I am not yet ascended to my Father." Joh.20, 17 Implied: He was not in Paradise whatsoever in the three days. In 2.Kor.12 2-4 Paradis is mentioned as something that existed in the "third heaven". Paradise can not move around the spheres, depending on the individual learning needs that arise with us! Therefore, if Jesus was in the "heart of the earth three days and three nights" after his death, he was NOT IN PARADISE THE DAY HE DIED!
Torhild Pettersen - go to the quoted text.
Cleanup are right in this with punctuation. In the old original urskriftene was not set characters. If all characters are put in the right place will not give me to discuss, it will be too extensive for my knowledge :) Regards Torhild
you can vouch for that. For all those Bible translations Lund referring to, so they made it easy, written by another.
How would the stone Jesus have gone to heaven the same day he died, when he would also be in the grave for 3 days? Impossible even for Jesus, it is impossible to be two places at once!
Bjørn Erik Fjerdingen - go to the quoted text.
You saw from Matt 12, 40 where it says not Jesus - "Today I say to you." It is not to be normal to say that, while one says anything.
is important here. When the Bible was with the New Testament, they had no commas or periods. And when it was copied, placed the comma wrong and since it has been so.
As I wrote in an earlier comment, how could Jesus go to heaven on the day he died, when he was in the grave for 3 days?
Gunnar Lund - go to the quoted text.
There have you no trouble to show me that?
about this.
Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. This is in many translations of Luke. 23, 43. To achieve this and agree with the biblical words of the dead so have some come on the idea that paradise is hell, but that's not the word of God. As we see in the next three passages is not paradise in hell, but rather in heaven. In the first passage we see that the tree is in the paradise of God, and we see in the next passage that the tree is in heaven, at God's throne. The third and final scripture also states that paradise is in heaven.
Revelation. 2 7 "He who has ears, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches! He who overcomes, to him will I eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. "
Revelation. 22; 1 "The angel showed me now a river of water of life, clear as crystal. It springs from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 Right between the city gate and the river is the tree of life, freely to both sides. It bears twelve fruits, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. "
2 Cor 12; 2 "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven - whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise - whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows 4 and where he heard unspeakable words, which a man is not allowed to speak. "
When Jesus would be robber there? Let's see what Jesus really said, as it is recorded by Luke in the original text inspired by God himself. Shortly after we see what this means directly translated word for word. What we also need to remember is that there were no commas, periods, etc. at the time the Bible was written, this is inserted later by the less inspired than the people who wrote the basic texts of the Bible.
"Amen soi lego semeron met Emou ese one two Paradeisos"
"Truly I say to you today with me you shall be in paradise"
Literally translated directly from the Greek text says "verily I say to you today with me you shall be in paradise." We could stop here, but there are more important evidence, Jesus confirms in the Bible that He traveled to paradise the day he died.
The robber was thus not a promise that the day he hung on the cross would be with Jesus in paradise. He was raised on the day he hung on the cross, but it must first be met when the dead in Christ shall rise and be with Jesus back to heaven on the last day. Jesus did not go to paradise that day He died on the cross, the Bible even says he went to hell, not to paradise, as we see here.
Gunnar Lund - go to the quoted text.
It is not enough just to write this stuff, cleanup.
You must show me the original Greek text. Since you claim this, so I expect you've seen this one place?
you believe that there is a comma and period in the original writings. Where is the faith?
I've certainly done the best I can.
Maybe it's time to change some of the theology?
Oddbjørn Johannessen - go to the quoted text.
This was a very weird debate - and let I be to interfere inside, apart from this brief commentary: The good pastor cleanup has probably mostly right in this with the punctuation in the basic texts. There was apparently some punctuation here and there, but the incidence of them was minimal.
Yet that is good for what I wrote yesterday regarding commas and periods in the early biblical writings.
Thanks to Oddbjørn Johannessen, and now I hope Gunnar Lund least want to think about changing his theology around this issue?
But I realize that there are major differences we are talking about.
A good friend of mine is pastor Jan Kåre Christensen from Smyrna church in Oslo. In an email he wrote, regarding what I have written in value debate:
Jesus was not in heaven until several days after his death. Even on the 4th day
after the resurrection he had not been in heaven. In heaven today there
only a few people. As Elijah, Enoch, and maybe a few more?
Joh.e. 20 17 Jesus said to her, "Touch me not, for I have not yet
ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, I ascend
to him who is my Father and your Father, my God and your God. "end quote.
It's nice to see that a skilled Bible teacher Jan Kåre agree, and who also has some additional information. Thanks to he ...
Final Comment:
I really agree with the cleanup in many things. But some things I do not share his opinion. As I see it for example. At the beginning of the millennium, people will be rare. And it is only those countries that are in favor of Israel who will enter the 1000 årsriket. And it will not be big cities anymore, but villages after village around the earth. Maybe max. 10 to 20,000 inhabitants. Of course, population increase, but big cities and high-rise buildings will not be allowed. Much to write here, but do stop here!
Related Links: http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2011/09/nr-38-should-israel-build-temple-and.html
http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2011/09/nr-49-1000-year-kingdom.html
http://the-heavenly-blog.janchristensen.net/2013/08/nr-565-eternal-torment-eternal-death.html
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