No. 1591: Missionary Terje Liverød asks if I who come with "harsh words" have met God's grace?

No. 1591:
Missionary Terje Liverød asks if I who come with "harsh words" have met God's grace?

https://blog.janchristensen.net/2022/06/nr-3026-guds-ord-omtaler-at-forkynnere.html
https://blog.janchristensen.net/2022/06/nr-3027-skjnner-ingen-i-guds-menighet.html

Missionary and preacher Terje Liverød has both divorced and remarried.
According to New Testament teaching and ordinances, he breaks Jesus' commandment 100% as remarriage for believers for any reason is not permitted.
The only thing that dissolves a marriage is death!
That is the only reason for remarriage for Christians, nothing else!

To me it is absolutely incredible that other believers who support remarriage do not understand and see the consequences of this?
It is completely incomprehensible to me!
Then essentially all evil forces escape within the Christian New Testament congregation!

There is great irresponsibility which, among other things, former Superintendent in Filadelfia Oslo, David Østby is working with.
Who surrounds himself with divorced and remarried preachers time after time, think about what that says about Østby.
Then it is free for anyone and everyone to live as they wish and want, there is always "grace" to be had.
That is not what the scriptures say, which says that repentance is needed.
Grace and repentance are two sides of the same coin, like the hub and the wheel belong together on a bicycle.
Picture of former head of Norway's largest free congregation, Filadelfia Oslo, David Østby, who is helping to open up these carnal and demonic forces in God's church.
Sad, and this will cause darkness to spread more and more into the surrounding congregations.



Here is the email exchange between me and Terje Liverød.
Where I abbreviate Terje Liverød to TL, and me to JKC.

TL: Hi Jan

I understand you are a brother who wants to serve the Lord. Think you're a good man. Like you, I have always had a longing for purity and holiness. I see marriage as sacred.

It is hard to understand how you think it is serving the Lord to hang out other people's tragedies. My divorce is the biggest tragedy that has happened to me. I cried to God and cried for years. You probably don't know what happened. I am fully aware that things in my life fell apart. But I know that God's grace embraces even me.

I feel no desire to share details with you because it seems like you are spreading harsh words about matters you know nothing about. It's probably not wisdom.

I still have to admit that it would have been nice if many people in Norway were as eager as you, only with more mercy for other people's pain.
 
God bless you my brother

Terje Liverød

JKC: Hi Terje!

Certainly much truth in what you write, but what is your view of what the scriptures teach?

Do you think that you have an extra chance that no one else in NT has to start a new relationship after divorce?

The entire NT gives an unequivocal teaching that remarriage for believers after divorce is indeed a sin.

If you think otherwise, it is fine if you come up with what God's word says.
I am not fully educated by any means.

Don't attack me as a person like you are doing here, I don't care about that.
Only I am interested in what God's word says.

You mean I come with harsh words?

It will be at your expense, I am only trying to hold forth the word of God, nothing else!

You are a role model, I'm just pointing out that the way you live and learn has a great influence on others.

Jan Kåre

TL: Hey bro

If you are really interested, we can meet and talk about what the whole of the Bible says.

Evangelical believers in Norway are very one-sided. But out in the world it looks very different.

I can also link you to websites that have clear teaching about this.

I don't have any special "permission" I follow God's Word with all my heart.

Be blessed

Terje

JKC: To Terje..

You write the following:
Evangelical believers in Norway are very one-sided. But out in the world it looks very different.

Do you think that those "out there" in the world see differently from us here in Norway that almost everything is permitted?

You also write:
I can also link you to websites that have clear teaching about this.

Are interested in your view of the Bible, not someone else's.

Be blessed too!

Etc
Jan Kåre

TL: In order to look at this thoroughly, we will probably have to meet. Or, as I said, I can refer you to very thorough teaching.

My view of the Bible is that I take the Word literally. When I see verses that seem to say different things, I always interpret in the light of the whole.

Just think about one thing: what was the point of divorce papers? The whole point was to show that the person who had received it was legally free to remarry. Where else would one need it.

God bless you brother. I believe the Lord wills you if you really want to find out. I pray many blessings upon you.

Terje

JKC: Thank you Terje

Divorce letter belongs to GT.
This is not found in the NT.
The teaching of the NT is clear, that remarriage is exclusively for believers.
There are many scriptures here, but I will settle for a few.


Luke 16:18 Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery her husband, he commits adultery.

1 Cor. 7. 10 I command the married, not I, but the Lord, that a wife should not divorce her husband; 11 but if she is divorced from him, then she remains unmarried or reconciles with her husband - and that a man should not divorce his wife.
Proverbs 6:29 So it will be with him who goes in to his neighbor's wife; no one goes unpunished who touches her.
Proverbs 5:20 Why then, my son, should you be drunk with lust for another man's wife and embrace the bosom of a strange woman?

Room. 7. 2 The married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if the husband dies, she is released from the law that bound her to the husband. 3 Therefore she shall be called an adulteress if, while the husband is alive, she marries another man; but if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she does not become an adulteress if she marries another man.

What Kleiveland writes:

I believe that ONLY if marriage is seen as a lifelong covenant broken only through the death of one, the divorce rate among Christians will decrease. Otherwise, carnal Christians will ALWAYS find a crowbar to live out their carnal lusts. I read online about Geir and Linn Byberg, who believe that Christians are in danger of having the same degree of cohabitation, divorce and adultery among active church members as in the rest of society. They challenge Christian congregations to counteract this development through open and honest communities. There is respect for the couple's experience. They have held family education in congregations over the past ten years, and they were former leaders of Familiefokus i Ungdom i Oppadrag. In the interview, they highlight important principles for getting families on the "right track", by creating a climate that makes people speak the truth about life, create greater awareness of the topic, have close-knit groups and greater honesty/openness. This is good, but it is equally something I am calling for in connection with the marriage position in congregations in Norway.

PROACTIVE

I believe that if ALL Norwegian congregations do not get a wake-up call in relation to the view on the indissolubility of marriage, then this development will only continue and continue. If congregations from all over the country do not open their eyes to the Bible's command that a married couple who have not been married before get married, then they are bound to each other as long as they are both alive (Rom.7.1-3), even if they get divorced, there will be no change at all. If a person is completely convinced that if the marriage is dissolved, then only one choice applies; either to live the rest of their lives as unmarried, or to reconcile with their spouse, the number of divorces will drop sharply. How many married people find it more comfortable to live in "a room and a kitchen" with possibly shared children every two weeks or once every 14 days, than to try to find a way to live together with their spouse for a few more years? I think the number is low. Teaching congregations all over this country that God's word HAS NOT CHANGED on this point, I believe, is the ONLY way to bring about the changes in Norwegian Christian congregations, and thus also in every individual Christian.

CARNAL CHRISTIANITY

Many Christians still live by half the verse in Rom.81, and do not even know that there is more. They believe that the Bible says there is no condemnation for Christians, but they couldn't be further from the truth. See the difference in the translations from Rome. 8:1: "So then there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." This is stated in the 1988 translation, the 1930 translation and a number of modern translations. But look at what Luther's translation of 1545, the King James translation, Young's Literal Translation and a number of other Bible translations say: "Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,* those who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Some manuscripts have omitted the second part of the verse, but this was included in Norwegian Bibles until the early 20th century. The Bible Society follows a textual tradition that does not include these words in verse 1, where the reading in the United Bible Societies' third edition and Nestle-aaland's 25th - 27th edition do not include these words. Bibelforlaget's translation of 1997 includes them. But the same words return in Rom. 8:5, and the meaning is therefore not to be misunderstood: Christians who live a life of carnal lusts are condemned.

THE WORKS OF THE FLESH - THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT

The Bible says that the flesh and the Spirit are opposed to each other. And it is only through walking in the Spirit that one will not fulfill the lust of the flesh (doing carnal deeds). Here it is easy to see which deeds can be described as carnal, in relation to a married life. (Emphasis mine.) Gal 5,19-23 The works of the flesh are obvious. They are: adultery, adultery, impurity, shameless fornication, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, anger, self-assertion, divisions, parties, envy, murder, drunkenness, indecent feasting, and other such deeds. Of these deeds I now tell you in advance, as I also told ten l you formerly, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-discipline. The law is not against such. (Bibelforlaget, 1997)

CONCLUSION:

A person who looks for opportunities to live his life according to God's commands will show fruit that is good and in line with the description of the fruit of the Spirit. The last word there is EGKRATEIA, which simply means "to remain sexually empty". In other words: Do not have sex with anyone other than the person you are committed to for life (first time for both parties). Others who do not live according to this may be in Christ Jesus, but there is condemnation for them, since they live according to the works of the flesh. And for them there is condemnation.

Etc
Jan Kåre

TL: I studied this very thoroughly over a long period of time.

If you read the basic text (and King James) you will see that Jesus says; A husband should not send his wife away if it is impossible to continue, but give them a divorce certificate. It is only through whoredom that one can send them away.

But this is too extensive to include in messages. We can meet or I can send you proper resources.

You don't follow the heart of Jesus by being hard on those who have already had it horribly, they haven't always sinned either.

Be blessed brother.

Terje

JKC: You about it Terje that you think various things about me, the scripture is clear on this point for us believers.

After a break-up, there are two possibilities according to NT teaching.

Either live alone or reconcile.

Jesus' teaching and Paul's are in agreement here.

Then it is up to us to bow to God's word and experience the blessing and pain of bowing to God's word, or let the flesh win and have a short-term pleasure from sin,

The choice is the individual's!

Concludes with Paul's clear teaching;


1 Cor. 7. 10 To a spouse I command by the Lord: A woman shall not leave her husband.
11 But if she leaves him, she must either live in abstinence or be reunited with her husband. And a man shall not leave his wife.

Etc
Jan Kåre

TL: Why did Jesus refer to letters of divorce if it belongs to the OT.
One of the issues that generally did not change from the OT to the NT was moral standards.

It is not God's heart to punish a person for what another has done to them. It very clearly goes against Jesus' whole attitude of grace.

Do you really think God will punish someone who managed to get out of an abusive marriage but forgive a murderer and give him a second chance?

Have you encountered God's grace?

JKC: Terje, views and opinions belong to us humans.
God's word and God's commandments, for me, are the only things I want to have a 100% relationship with.

I understand that you feel the way you do, but that does not change what the scriptures say.
The scriptures are so clear to me that remarriage after divorce is adultery.

https://blog.janchristensen.net/2014/11/nr-927-vre-en-ordets-forkynner-er.html

We just have to agree to disagree.
Have a Blessed Day!

Etc
Jan Kåre

TL: Yes, we have to agree on that.

Let us go wholeheartedly to serve God and stick to the Word.

Do you want to see more on the subject. Is there solid Bible teaching based on the entire Bible, OT and NT, at divorcehope.com.

God bless you brother.

Terje

JKC: God Bless you too Terje!

John K

Final comment:

Here is the exchange between us. Can't see that I'm bringing any condemnation, Terje Liverød does that time and time again.
Anyway, the way I see it.
Open up to remarried preachers, is how we see it today.
It is like letting the enemy into the congregation.
Scripture says that a little sin permeates the whole church.
Just like a little yeast, permeates the whole bread/dough!
My point is this: A little leaven permeates the whole dough!
If you let go of something in God's word, and leave this, it opens up for far more. Soon the whole church is permeated with false teaching/carnal life, and it is no longer a church in the New Testament sense.
But an institution that teaches something other than what God's word says.

1 Cor. 5. 1 In all I hear that there is sexual immorality among you, and a form of sexual immorality that is not even mentioned among the nations: One has his father's wife!
2 And you are inflated! Should you not rather mourn him who does such a deed and turn him away from you?
3 For if I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit. And I have already, as if I were present, judged him who does this.
4 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together in my spirit and with the power of the Lord Jesus Christ:
5 Then surrender the one concerned to Satan and the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your self-praise is not good! Because don't you know that a little leaven permeates the whole dough?
7 Clean out the old leaven and become a new and unleavened dough just as Christ was when he was slain as the Passover lamb for us.
8 Let us therefore keep the feast without old leaven or with the leaven of malice and malice, but with unleavened bread that is of purity and truth.

The Preacher 10. 1. Poisonous flies may say the ointment of the leven lager to smell bad and leaven; even a little great folly destroys a man who excels in wisdom or honor.
2 The head of the wise is turned to the right, but the head of the fool to the left.
3 And wherever a fool goes, his sense fails him, and he lets everyone know that he is a fool.

PS!
Even though I thought that Terje Liverød made strong accusations against me (something that unfortunately almost always those who have remarried do, here for example http://jan-hanvolds-blogg-usminket.janchristensen.net/.)

Then I tried to be able to point out what the scriptures and above all what the New Testaments teach.
Read for yourself, and you will probably learn a lot!